Thread Closed 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 3 Votes - 3.67 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
War Room Overhauling.
09-15-2016, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 09-15-2016 10:12 AM by aloshka.)
Post: #11
RE: War Room Overhauling.
These rules are substantially horrible, but at the moment I don't have motivations to fight against them, because for me it's a choice between sth "meh..." and "mega meh...".

Though what I want to talk about is the procedure how you guys (Chronos/Thyla/whatever) decided to enact them. Basically you had a bussiness to Midori, You wanted their acceptance for YOUR rules. When I want sth from someone, for example good sword, then I write to him and offer him. And he can say "NO". "No", because grass is green, "no" because sky is blue, "no" because on a whim or "no" because there are many reasonable arguments. But what we've got here is a putting gun to the head and preaching about gun abolishment.

Besides, what's the point of creating rules since we learned, that values like: "promise", "deal", "given word" means nothing here? Pretences are not about that someone attacks the other one, but about giving a word/making a deal -> taking a payment in time when it's convenient (read: protection) -> and later pretending there was no such deal/promise. Here you have lot of threads about it in individual relations: http://forums.explosivebarrel.com/forumd...php?fid=31 while we're talking about the same thing, but in clans relations.

Basically these rules are about justification and codification of sanctioning past scamming in clans relations. Though I can see trough it, do I give a potato about it? Well, as I said, at this moment no, but maybe tomorrow, who knows? Besides I could always kindly nod my head, smile and shake hands to show my approval for these "rules" and later say: "there are no rules, no promises or word given".

In other words: don't talk and don't codificate how to be a good man, just be the one.

Last but not least, talks about alliances. Aka has no alliance, Hono has no alliance, Midori has no alliance. Aoi has alliance with Ki, Aoi has defensive pact with Mura. If Ki wants to cancel the alliance, then they can do this (there is a difference between breaking and cancelling, but that's for the other discussion). If Mura wants to cancel defensive pact, then they can do this, but we should also talk about our previous donations and find fair solution. That are just examples.

Why do you guys want to limit us in making deals, that are not your deals? I think I know the answer, but better that everyone who read this will answer for himself.

And what's next, forbidding trading my e.g. OP sandals or helmet, because I could gain next strong items?

Ok, no problem. I agree. I will break it 60sec later. Thanks for the life lesson.

(edit: about Aoi-Midori bilateral relations I think Ak90/we will talk via priv)
Find all posts by this user
09-15-2016, 12:22 PM
Post: #12
RE: War Room Overhauling.
A lot of this is gonna be about trust, which i can understand can be tough. But, i'll be the first to say, i don't care about war room tiles. They don't mean anything. I'm much more interested in members. I understand a lot of people put a big value on those tiles, and i'm hoping we can meet in the middle, where we can let go of some value we have on tiles.

It's ok to lose tiles. There's always a way to get them back, as long as no one gets angry. Arrgh, you attacked me! 1000 years of war! Raaaaaaar!

More like, Arrgh, you attacked me! Good move man, You're gonna pay for that later, haha!

Tameshi

(09-15-2016 07:33 AM)Tameshi Wrote:  This can be problematic sometimes,like for example,when a clan has to rebuild his clan/land for one reason or another.
For example,a trade between 2 clans could happen.
Or a clan doesnt play by the rules of the new war room and takes too much land of another clan.
Or maybe a clan just lost too much in a short time and needs a little break.
I know that this concept was made to offer each clan member the chance of fighting in the war room.
Though,what if the majority of this clan isnt interested to fight right now?
This may be unlikely to happen in a story clan(or at least it will be hard to prove it),but it can easily happen in a small player clan.
What would happen in that case?

Land trades can put other spars on hold, as long as there is progress being made into other clan areas, to keep the war room open and functioning. That's my biggest goal.

I can see what you mean, and smaller player clans will have the ability to make their own choices but, hopefully, they'll be trying to grow. That is the main point of making a clan.

Maybe for this, we can think of something for smaller clans. It's normally hard for player clans to get off the ground, maybe we can talk about making that a little easier. I'd personally be willing to give some Aka Ryu lands for a smaller player clan, or perhaps i wouldn't mind if some lands were taken while i was busy elsewhere.

Example: Got an hq built on a Mura tile, sparring them. Can't spare the men to stop a small clan's assault, so i let them eat up whatever tiles they can, and figure i'll get them back after the battle. Maybe that clan will be strong, and i'll let them hold on to a few lands, see if they can get their start growing.

Goldfang

(09-15-2016 07:40 AM)Kogane no kiba bur┼źdoragon Wrote:  your idea has some merits Thyla, especially the sacred area for each clan. currently though Aka Ryu and Ki Sensu are carving up Midori's homeland...will your two clans be returning the land to them so they have a safe base or since it is Midori, and so many has a certain mindset as it concerns them, fugg them and their homeland?

just curious...

You all should already Know Aoi's stance on the two southernmost islands

My thought on this Fang, was that once hono/midori/aoi are done there war, Aka will be busy elsewhere, so Midori will have plenty of time to take their lands back. We don't have to officially *give* them, but we keep everyone "in business" so to speak, having something to do.

Then, once Midori gobbles up all their lands again, maybe they decide they want to attack us, since we attacked them. Now we're on the defensive for a bit. If we absolutely can't fight back, we can trust midori not to take ALL our lands, they'll take a bunch, get bored, look elsewhere, and eventually when we're back on our feet and rebuilding, we can grab those lands/fight for them, and see what we can win back.

But, Midori won't get mad when we attack them, maybe they'll say, "Can you delay for a few days?" or "Can you only take *this many* tiles until this day, when we can fight for real?"

As opposed to saying.

"You have directly attacked and backstabbed me. This is a terrible breach of trust and honor. 24 days to demolish, or we will attack your clan mercilessly.*

We would have to talk, and decide on what sacred area land mass size would be appropriate, but my thought is 40 tiles, major clan mark. Maybe we can up that to 60/80, but that will be for us all to decide together and vote on or whatever.

Aloshka

(09-15-2016 10:05 AM)aloshka Wrote:  These rules are substantially horrible, but at the moment I don't have motivations to fight against them, because for me it's a choice between sth "meh..." and "mega meh...".

I understand how you eel about the rules, especially from what has happened in the past. But, i feel like there are some things that are important, and some things that are secondary.

What's really important is keeping the War Room as open as we can, so everyone has a shot at using it, and not getting stuck with nothing to do for boring months on end.

(09-15-2016 10:05 AM)aloshka Wrote:  Though what I want to talk about is the procedure how you guys (Chronos/Thyla/whatever) decided to enact them. Basically you had a bussiness to Midori, You wanted their acceptance for YOUR rules. When I want sth from someone, for example good sword, then I write to him and offer him. And he can say "NO". "No", because grass is green, "no" because sky is blue, "no" because on a whim or "no" because there are many reasonable arguments. But what we've got here is a putting gun to the head and preaching about gun abolishment.

Besides, what's the point of creating rules since we learned, that values like: "promise", "deal", "given word" means nothing here? Pretences are not about that someone attacks the other one, but about giving a word/making a deal -> taking a payment in time when it's convenient (read: protection) -> and later pretending there was no such deal/promise. Here you have lot of threads about it in individual relations: http://forums.explosivebarrel.com/forumd...php?fid=31 while we're talking about the same thing, but in clans relations.

Basically these rules are about justification and codification of sanctioning past scamming in clans relations. Though I can see trough it, do I give a potato about it? Well, as I said, at this moment no, but maybe tomorrow, who knows? Besides I could always kindly nod my head, smile and shake hands to show my approval for these "rules" and later say: "there are no rules, no promises or word given".

In other words: don't talk and don't codificate how to be a good man, just be the one.

I understand what you mean here, but i see it a little differently. Moreso being, we want things to be a certain way, because we see that things are currently not working too well (Lots of boredom, lots of stagnation, and lots of anger and resentment when things do happen)

And those are the things i want to fight, the anger, the resentment, the boredom. I can understand someone taking a clan attack personally. We need people like that in the game. It's what makes them really come back and fight for the clan. It's heart, and spirit. It's something Tameshi has loads of. But, in the position of a leader, too much can be an issue.

So, all of the lying, all of the backstabbing, all of the anger, it stems from one place, and i think that place is the value we have in war room tiles, and maybe a little paranoia.

If people did not have strong investments in war room tiles, and didn't feel personally attacked then their war room tiles were attacked, we wouldn't need these rules. But, we do have people like that, so we have to have a system where everyone can work together. Because right now, we're being torn apart, and i know i'm just as much at fault for it as anyone else, (For different reasons entirely, but we can discuss that another time.)

So, it's like your saying here. "In other words: don't talk and don't codificate how to be a good man, just be the one."

If we could truly all just be cool and chill about the war room, accept that no clans are truly attempting to 100% conquer us (which is impossible for the major story clans) and just play the game when we can, and don't when we don't, we're all gonna get along a lot better.

I never see drama like this about individual duels, and i don't think the war room should be any different. Friendly competition.

(09-15-2016 10:05 AM)aloshka Wrote:  Why do you guys want to limit us in making deals, that are not your deals? I think I know the answer, but better that everyone who read this will answer for himself.

And what's next, forbidding trading my e.g. OP sandals or helmet, because I could gain next strong items?

Maybe it's a poor choice of wording, that isn't exactly what i meant. Like i said, there are no rules when real war breaks out.

But, it won't be easy to have alliances, because the point of the war room is keeping it open. If there is going to be peace, fine. But, we need to keep hq's built, and war room running 24/7. That's one of our jobs as leaders. 2 clans being allied might create a force that makes it hard to set up fair matches so we have something to do during peace times.

Maybe we can ignore those alliances during that time, and run it as 'round the clock spars, that would work fine. I can't stop anyone from allying with anyone else, but i would also hope 2 very strong clans, say maybe hono/aoi or hono/mura, wouldn't team up in an attempt to take the board, or crush one smaller clan over personal reasons.

If that situation did arise, my hope would be the whole game would step up to defend that person. That's why if we can say, "This is ok/this isn't" Everyone has something set up. And we all had input on it, and we all agreed to it.

I understand what you said before, agreements broken, all that stuff. Literally all of that comes from having such a strong attachment to war room tiles. Random small attacks because there is nothing to do. We can't live in peace forever, it will drive us mad. Once we have the war room going steady again, those types of things wont be able to happen. There will be people building hq's on everyone's land here and there. Taking/not taking, all things we can discuss.

I just don't wanna get yelled at for building hq's anymore. It's good for my clan, it's good for the game, and it's a natural feature of it.

And i don't want to have to risk everything i have, my whole reputation as a leader, just for wanting to have a little fun in the war room either.

[Image: UTK87Qx.png]

http://i.imgur.com/rwc2MFh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/BZico18.png
Find all posts by this user
09-15-2016, 11:38 PM (This post was last modified: 09-15-2016 11:39 PM by Tameshi.)
Post: #13
RE: War Room Overhauling.
I have to bring up one more thing,and i really didnt want to,believe me....

Anyway,i talked with BL,s leader a few minutes ago.
And i dont want to make it public what we talked about exactly,because this is the wrong place for that.
What matters,though,is this:
I wanted to get the chance to speak with him about the attack of BL,with the intent to bring it to a halt.
But after a few minutes,he left the conversation,stating he would keep fighting,even if it means BL loses all tiles they have because,,there is no difference between 0 tiles and 13 tiles''.

This puts me in a very difficult position now.
I am here,like the other people too,to put an end to the current war and work on the new rules.
Not to keep it going.
If midori keeps fighting BL now,we will most likely be seen as,,the clan who wants to wipe out BL''though thats not what i want to do,i want the opposite,thats why i even had this talk with BL,s leader.
Now,if BL wants to keep fighting even if they would lose all ther tiles,what can i do now?
Will another clan jump in now to help BL out?
Will we be able to fight them directly till they finally agree to stop ther attacks for now?
I get the message you want to spread leo,that small clans need a chance too,that there has to be a fight in the war room and everything....
But now is not the time,we didnt agree on the rules completely yet,the old war is still going on.

So my question remains:
What should i do with BL now,to avoid beeing seen as the antagonist again?
Ther leader aims for 40 tiles alltogether(most likely not 40 tiles from midori,but still)and is willing to keep fighting for as long as he has to.
I dont see how this war can end,if a clan keeps fighting while everyone else stops.
And in the case you want to sugest that we just let them take our tiles till the war is over just because they are a small clan:
That would be a very bad way to start a,,new''war room and leave old grudges behind.
I can make peace with BL now,or i can fight them,im fine with it either way,BL can stop or keep fighting.
I just dont want to be blamed for the choice they make.

I also would like to know how BL stands to this whole concept of a,,new war room''.
If they want to be protected in the case another clan breaks those new rules,ofcourse they need to follow those rules too.
And,,i will convert ur tiles over and over
even if bl will lost all the tiles
i will contunue''
Makes me(rightfully so)wonder,where BL,s stand on this whole thing is that we talk about right now and if they are even interested in ending this war.

[Image: unbenanntwfwafwt2vgdipq89.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
09-16-2016, 12:02 AM (This post was last modified: 09-16-2016 12:23 AM by aloshka.)
Post: #14
RE: War Room Overhauling.
If it was up to me, I wouldn't allow/tolerate/defend Bagda, because he spat on the deal I made with him, when I was a leader of Aoi.

And do you all remember this drama: http://forums.explosivebarrel.com/showth...533&page=3
I was the most hated guy by Midori as I was the frontman in verbal defending BL and I didn't care much about being nice.

And now I'm the same person who says now, that Midori is being treated by other clans like a shi* and I cannot stand that unjustice in my eyes. It reminds my "Lord of the flies" W. Golding's book and movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqrREfjDS-c
Of course I'm not talking about acts of aggression on Midori, it's a different story. Declaring war is declaring war, after that you're considered to be an aggressor and that's all. That's why I don't have pretences for example to Chronos who basically doesn't trashtalk them and recently didn't break any promise given to them (last war events are different story and was the subject of flamewars between Azgo and Killrog in other topic, I won't interfere to this).

I must also admit I saw some improvements in treating Midori since last 1-2 days.

Also don't treat me as self-made DEFENDER OF JUSTICE AND MIDORI. I'm more talking about common-sense justice.

Back to Blood Lotus issue - I won't also make any verbal actions to persuade for example my leader to punish them or sth, solely for the sake of old good times with Saskia. BL is a clan she created.

Theoretically maybe they had good reasons, maybe I am the one who's wrong, but simply I don't want to hear any shitty explanations. I don't care. I have Starcraft 2 co op missions to play as Artanis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_XwzBMTJaM Kaldalis is awesome.
Find all posts by this user
09-16-2016, 12:21 AM
Post: #15
RE: War Room Overhauling.
Alright. First of all, you guys are just like: "Hey, we have to strictly obey THESE rules?"

No. This is a discussion we started. The point of all this, was that all the clan leaders (or at least the Great Clans Leaders) Decide a set of rules they would like implemented in WR. After that, we can further discuss in private in a Council.

Next; We need to understand Bagda. He kinda isn't within the main bunch of high-shot Leaders and SICs, he isn't in the noobs's clique either. We basically need to befriend him more, so he fits with us. He basically wants his clan to become a major clan already, since it's been around for a while. We basically need to talk with him, see his plans, and why not even help him.

So to Tameshi: I think you should currently ignore him, and then you can discuss with him in the council. See what his plans are.

[Image: 5ca921949fa42671a19ee24975a921d9.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
09-16-2016, 12:24 AM
Post: #16
RE: War Room Overhauling.
(09-15-2016 11:38 PM)Tameshi Wrote:  But after a few minutes,he left the conversation,stating he would keep fighting,even if it means BL loses all tiles they have because,,there is no difference between 0 tiles and 13 tiles''.

This puts me in a very difficult position now.
I am here,like the other people too,to put an end to the current war and work on the new rules.
Not to keep it going.
If midori keeps fighting BL now,we will most likely be seen as,,the clan who wants to wipe out BL''though thats not what i want to do,i want the opposite,thats why i even had this talk with BL,s leader.
Now,if BL wants to keep fighting even if they would lose all ther tiles,what can i do now?
Will another clan jump in now to help BL out?
Will we be able to fight them directly till they finally agree to stop ther attacks for now?
I get the message you want to spread leo,that small clans need a chance too,that there has to be a fight in the war room and everything....
But now is not the time,we didnt agree on the rules completely yet,the old war is still going on.


So my question remains:
What should i do with BL now,to avoid beeing seen as the antagonist again?
Ther leader aims for 40 tiles alltogether(most likely not 40 tiles from midori,but still)and is willing to keep fighting for as long as he has to.

That would be between you and Bagda, and up to everyone to decide. I think like Aloshka mentioned, we can air on the side of common sense.

You asked Blood lotus to stop, and they didnt. So it's only reasonable that if they ever ask you to stop, you won't have to.

But, this is also within reason. Say you ask them to stop, and they say No. Then they take 2 tiles from you, and no more. It's reasonable for you to take your two tiles back when they have time, it's reasonable to take maybe an extra 2 tiles from them, since that's what they took for you. Maybe even 3-4 for some kind of revenge.

But, it wouldn't be reasonable to wipe them out entirely, actions demand reactions that are reasonable, yet forceful.

But again, this is war, and politics is always an option. IF another clan decides to jump in, you can explain the situation and what happened, and justify your actions, and see where this takes you. IF it doesnt work, maybe you can convince another clan to eat up some of the interfering clans time, while you also hold them off, and try to go after blood lotus.

But, something i want to try to do away with is labeling people as the "Aggressor" or the "cause" of the war. We shouldn't really blame someone for war in the war room, there is supposed to be war there. We just have to treat each other well, and keep an air of sportsmanship about it.

(09-15-2016 11:38 PM)Tameshi Wrote:  I dont see how this war can end,if a clan keeps fighting while everyone else stops.
And in the case you want to sugest that we just let them take our tiles till the war is over just because they are a small clan:
That would be a very bad way to start a,,new''war room and leave old grudges behind.
I can make peace with BL now,or i can fight them,im fine with it either way,BL can stop or keep fighting.
I just dont want to be blamed for the choice they make.

I also would like to know how BL stands to this whole concept of a,,new war room''.
If they want to be protected in the case another clan breaks those new rules,ofcourse they need to follow those rules too.
And,,i will convert ur tiles over and over
even if bl will lost all the tiles
i will contunue''
Makes me(rightfully so)wonder,where BL,s stand on this whole thing is that we talk about right now and if they are even interested in ending this war.

It is important to hear where BL stands, and what they think. Personally, i think Bagda is trying, like we are, to lead by example. He knows that taking a shot at a very large clan can have all of his tiles wiped, but he also knows it's the only way to truly grow.

So, he is willing to be one of the first to step up and say "Look, my war room tiles don't matter that much." And potentially lose some tiles, for the good of the game.

Even if in the moment right now, Midori is getting hit hard from all sides, moments will pass. Worst case possible is midori being reduced to nothing but diplos, and then eventually, the clans attacking have no one to fight, so they find other fights, giving midori the opportunity to bounce back. (But my hope is no clan will ever get reduced that low.

(09-16-2016 12:02 AM)aloshka Wrote:  If it was up to me, I wouldn't allow/tolerate/defend Bagda, because he spat on the deal I made with him, when I was a leader of Aoi.

And do you all remember this drama: http://forums.explosivebarrel.com/showth...533&page=3
I was the most hated guy by Midori as I was the frontman in verbal defending BL and I didn't care much about being nice.

And now I'm the same person who says now, that Midori is treated by other clans like a shi* and I cannot stand that unjustice in my eyes. It reminds my "Lord of the flies" W. Golding's book and movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqrREfjDS-c
Of course I'm not talking about acts of aggression on Midori, it's a different story. Declaring war is declaring war, after that you're considered to be an aggressor and that's all. That's why I don't have pretences for example to Chronos who basically doesn't trashtalk them and recently didn't break any promise given to them (last war events are different story and was the subject of flamewars between Azgo and Killrog in other topic, I won't interfere to this).

I must also admit I saw some improvements in treating Midori since last 1-2 days.

Also don't treat me as self-made DEFENDER OF JUSTICE AND MIDORI. I'm more talking about common-sense justice.

Back to Blood Lotus issue - I won't also make any verbal actions to persuade for example my leader to punish them or sth, solely for the sake of old good times with Saskia. BL is a clan she created.

Theoretically maybe they had good reasons, maybe I am the one who's wrong, but simply I don't want to hear any shitty explanations. I don't care. I have Starcraft 2 co op missions to play as Artanis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_XwzBMTJaM Kaldalis is awesome.

This is good, this is something we need. We need people who are going to look out for all clans, and who are going to defend clans when bad things happen to them.

Now, justices/injustices against midori are something we can speak about, and Midori's treatment. I'm not sure how Midori as a whole was treated poorly, but i can agree that Tameshi has been treated poorly. But, from my stance, he has also treated the game poorly, at the cost of his clan. So, Midori was treated poorly by Tameshi, because Tameshi was treated poorly by everyone else, and the game itself.

Midori was unable/unwilling to make a lot of moves, it seems to me, because the system we have set up causes someone to have to, "be the bad guy" whenever we want something besides boring peace, or simple single tile "spars" (which also have been a big hassle to implement.)

So, it's all a big chain of events, and in my eyes, it all stems from the systems we have in place, and this rut of boring peace, and dramatic escalation into flame wars once something happens, that set these events into motion.

If we can get down to the source, the root cause of it, and stop it there. We can stop this issues before they actually happen.

[Image: UTK87Qx.png]

http://i.imgur.com/rwc2MFh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/BZico18.png
Find all posts by this user
09-16-2016, 01:49 AM
Post: #17
RE: War Room Overhauling.
@Ashura

Im sorry i have to say it so bluntly but:No.

BL attacked us with the intent to grow.
They used ther chances,like leo described it in the war room a few days ago.
They knew exactly what they are in for,if they attack us.
Then,i wanted to speak with bagda personally but it didnt end well.
If i am completely honest,i could have worded a few things in a other way,but still,at least i tried it.
It didnt work and he left the conversation before we could discuss more things,propably thinking i wanted to insult him.
If it looked that way,im sorry,it was not my intent,i even told him first that he should not take this personally as its only clan business.
Then the fight continues,i offered him in the WR that we can end this fight with BL,after our private conversation didnt work.
Now i am currently waiting for a answer but i guess it will be a no.
So....after all this,i really dont think i have to let them take our tiles.....i will not move away from that standpoint.
Bagda could also just stop the fight and talk in the meeting we will have,instead of taking tiles first and later discussing things.
Thats exactly how this war started(taking action and talking later),and i dont want to repeat this.
If BL wants to grow,they will have to fight for ther tiles or try it with a more diplomatic approach like sohei did.


@Leo
As i said,i dont want wipe them out.
But if they continue to fight over and over again,i am forced to fight aswell.
And i dont think i am in the wrong here,really.
I will only attack ther tiles as long as they are attacking ours,they could say stop right now,and its over.
What im not going to do,is let them attack our tiles for the next few weeks,while we only defend our tiles without a counterattack.

-We fought for a few months now,we are tired of this war.
-I want to settle everything with this new war room,a ongoing war is counterproductive right now.
-If we just defend our tiles,they will never stop because they dont risk to lose anything if we never start a counterattack.
-Im not gifting tiles to BL for obvious reasons.




,,So, he is willing to be one of the first to step up and say "Look, my war room tiles don't matter that much." And potentially lose some tiles, for the good of the game.''
I really dont have that impression leo.
He wants that his clan grows,he told me his reasons for attacking us.
And he didnt mention anything about,,for the game''.
Im not judging that attitude,afterall,its very similiar to my own.
For me,my clan comes first aswell.
But for exactly that reason,i cant let him just go on and attack us while we dont do anything.
Right now,we are at war.
He attacks us,we respond to that attack with a attack of our own.



,,Even if in the moment right now, Midori is getting hit hard from all sides, moments will pass. Worst case possible is midori being reduced to nothing but diplos, and then eventually, the clans attacking have no one to fight, so they find other fights, giving midori the opportunity to bounce back. (But my hope is no clan will ever get reduced that low.''

I guess you are talking about the future,not the current state.
A big reason i am here is,because i dont want that to happen now.
Before implementing new rules for a new war room,old problems of the old war room need to be fixed first.
If midori has ther homeland back,then we could fight accordingly to new rules of a new war room.
But this war has to be taken care of first.

[Image: unbenanntwfwafwt2vgdipq89.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
09-16-2016, 02:24 AM (This post was last modified: 09-16-2016 02:28 AM by Thylakaleo.)
Post: #18
RE: War Room Overhauling.
(09-16-2016 01:49 AM)Tameshi Wrote:  @Ashura

Im sorry i have to say it so bluntly but:No.

BL attacked us with the intent to grow.
They used ther chances,like leo described it in the war room a few days ago.
They knew exactly what they are in for,if they attack us.
Then,i wanted to speak with bagda personally but it didnt end well.
If i am completely honest,i could have worded a few things in a other way,but still,at least i tried it.
It didnt work and he left the conversation before we could discuss more things,propably thinking i wanted to insult him.
If it looked that way,im sorry,it was not my intent,i even told him first that he should not take this personally as its only clan business.
Then the fight continues,i offered him in the WR that we can end this fight with BL,after our private conversation didnt work.
Now i am currently waiting for a answer but i guess it will be a no.
So....after all this,i really dont think i have to let them take our tiles.....i will not move away from that standpoint.
Bagda could also just stop the fight and talk in the meeting we will have,instead of taking tiles first and later discussing things.
Thats exactly how this war started(taking action and talking later),and i dont want to repeat this.
If BL wants to grow,they will have to fight for ther tiles or try it with a more diplomatic approach like sohei did.

You absolutely don't have to "let" them take your tiles. But, if you are being attacked in your homeland, and outside of it, you have to choose what you will defend, and what you wont, and accept losses on one side for gains on another side.

But, i don't think all clans should come up diplomatically, like Mura, because now they are basically bound to Aoi in a defensive pact, and will owe them something if they abandon that.

That's the type of clan relation that can lead to the cold war stand off we have seen. Where we each just amass bigger and bigger armies, while doing really nothing at all, waiting for someone to make the first move.

And once they do, we nuke them to hell, everything hits the fan, we all fight, we all make up, and schedule to happen again in a few months.

That's the cycle i want to break, and i think we can all see the issues in it.


(09-16-2016 01:49 AM)Tameshi Wrote:  @Leo
As i said,i dont want wipe them out.
But if they continue to fight over and over again,i am forced to fight aswell.
And i dont think i am in the wrong here,really.
I will only attack ther tiles as long as they are attacking ours,they could say stop right now,and its over.
What im not going to do,is let them attack our tiles for the next few weeks,while we only defend our tiles without a counterattack.

That's 100% reasonable, and i don't think anyone should be thought of as being "in the wrong" in the situation. Clans attack, that's natural. it's the way the game was designed. And clans defend themselves. Natural.

(09-16-2016 01:49 AM)Tameshi Wrote:  -We fought for a few months now,we are tired of this war.
-I want to settle everything with this new war room,a ongoing war is counterproductive right now.
-If we just defend our tiles,they will never stop because they dont risk to lose anything if we never start a counterattack.
-Im not gifting tiles to BL for obvious reasons.

I understand you are tired from the war, and can't let them attack with no repercussions. But, i think that the attack shouldn't be thought of so severely, and shouldn't need to be answered with full on domination. They try to take your lands, you try to take theirs, but no one has intention to wipe anyone else out, or prevent other people from playing.

Just like you said, you won't just sit around and ignore their attacks, but you also won't wipe them out. That's fair and understandable, and gives everyone a chance.

Because maybe when you launch your counter attack, they won't respond and will let you take the tiles back, because they have already moved on to another clan, to try to gain some tiles from them, or something like that.


(09-16-2016 01:49 AM)Tameshi Wrote:  ,,So, he is willing to be one of the first to step up and say "Look, my war room tiles don't matter that much." And potentially lose some tiles, for the good of the game.''
I really dont have that impression leo.
He wants that his clan grows,he told me his reasons for attacking us.
And he didnt mention anything about,,for the game''.
Im not judging that attitude,afterall,its very similiar to my own.
For me,my clan comes first aswell.
But for exactly that reason,i cant let him just go on and attack us while we dont do anything.
Right now,we are at war.
He attacks us,we respond to that attack with a attack of our own.

I understand you don't have that impression, and maybe i'm wrong, maybe he is only doing it to grow BL, and not for the game as a whole.

But, it's an attitude i feel that we all should try to adopt. And once we do, there will be no reason for flames, backstabbing, trickery, or any of that, because we won't quite care as much if we lose 3-4 tiles here and there.

So, when things that we currently think of happening, like once clan attacking another while they're mid war, it isn't automatically i giant dishonor. It's just, we'll defend if we can, and if we can't, then we'll get our lands back later, maybe when they can't defend, or when we are back on our feet and can wage a fair war.

But that being said too, under the new rules, if you truly couldn't defend, asked them to stop taking tiles, and they refused, then other clans would come to the leader, ask them to stop, and potentially threaten action to keep the balance of the game going strong.

(09-16-2016 01:49 AM)Tameshi Wrote:  ,,Even if in the moment right now, Midori is getting hit hard from all sides, moments will pass. Worst case possible is midori being reduced to nothing but diplos, and then eventually, the clans attacking have no one to fight, so they find other fights, giving midori the opportunity to bounce back. (But my hope is no clan will ever get reduced that low.''

I guess you are talking about the future,not the current state.
A big reason i am here is,because i dont want that to happen now.
Before implementing new rules for a new war room,old problems of the old war room need to be fixed first.
If midori has ther homeland back,then we could fight accordingly to new rules of a new war room.
But this war has to be taken care of first.

Exactly. We have to address these old problems, and we have to all agree there are problems. We'll have to put a lot behind us, do a lot of apologizing, and everyone will need to swallow a little pride.

I feel like we're competing with one another in non-friendly competition. WE need to come back to a friendly state because, whether or not we accept it, we as clan leaders and high ranking/popular players are responsible for the game as a whole. Not just our individual clans.

We need to look out for our clans, and keep competing with one another, but at the same time, we need to make sure that never detriments the game overall. Because if the whole game fails, it won't matter how strong your clan is, no one can save the game by themselves.

It's gonna take all of us, and we're gonna have to really reach out, and accept and respect other clans right to exist and grow, while also being respected by everyone in our right to exist.

[Image: UTK87Qx.png]

http://i.imgur.com/rwc2MFh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/BZico18.png
Find all posts by this user
09-16-2016, 03:26 AM (This post was last modified: 09-16-2016 03:28 AM by AshuraTakezo.)
Post: #19
RE: War Room Overhauling.
@Tameshi

Trust me, I am not a fan of BL. I also hate the way they approach and all of it.

But what i'm saying is, don't let them TAKE the tiles. Ignore them, for now, and after the big fights's stress is out of your head, you can retake them, you can also use it as a chill out time, since you most probably can beat BL. And it will give you something to do in the War Room.

If he DOES insist on way too much, then yeah, take care of it. But yeah, don't wipe them out; just give them a lesson

[Image: 5ca921949fa42671a19ee24975a921d9.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
09-16-2016, 04:25 AM
Post: #20
RE: War Room Overhauling.
Blood Lotus being wiped out is not a possibility. Their territories adjacent to the current battlefields can be taken but they have territories in other places to protect them from being completely wiped out.

This is a play to gain what...5 tiles? If I am being honest, I want Blood Lotus to try and conquer these tiles. If they fail it will be something to learn from, if they succeed it will be a confidence booster. They have my support in this as it shows they have chutzpah.

That being said Midori is drawing the short end of the stick here and is the preferred target because of the actions of Ki and Aka. You have been carving up Kanto between yourselves causing Midori to have to devote resources to stemming their losses. this made them a target for a hungry player clan and Blood Lotus just so happened to be in position to get them a seat at the table.

If any of the other Player Clans were still around we know they would have been doing the same thing.

Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)