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A big thank you to the major clan leaders
01-05-2016, 10:10 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2016 10:23 PM by Killrog.)
Post: #11
RE: A big thank you to the major clan leaders
(01-05-2016 08:19 PM)Yamamoto Wrote:  You are right. I was in the war....Did people leave during the war? Not really....Because we were all fighting together as allies and enemies. The friends lists were full, the clan chat was busy. They started leaving a few weeks after when there was nothing to do.
But you already knew that.
In those days your hair was on fire from trying to prevent Midori from spam building on every sector in a contested tile. Don't have to worry so much about that now do you?

Well that's my point, what you're saying here is a lie, or simpy wrong because of lack of information on your count, pick the one you prefer, all the "important" people we lost were lost due to the war, and most of them have returned after the peace, so your entire basic premise is false, at least as far as our clan is concerned.

That last sentence of yours, I'm sorry but I'm not sure of what that means. If it means that I don't have to prevent people from building random structures all over the map, well it's quite the opposite actually, half my job these days is to prevent that precisely in order to avoid move farming since we're forced to have at least one active HQ at all time, so again I'm not sure of what you mean but that's no big deal.

EDIT: mfw I read Midori got the better end of the post-war deals (we gave one tile for every tile we got back, save Aka who gave 2 for free and Aoi who did more or less the same)
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EDIT²: mfw Aloshka gives positive reputation points
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01-05-2016, 11:14 PM
Post: #12
RE: A big thank you to the major clan leaders
(01-05-2016 10:10 PM)Killrog Wrote:  EDIT²: mfw Aloshka gives positive reputation points
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01-06-2016, 01:05 AM
Post: #13
RE: A big thank you to the major clan leaders
Well, you have to remember the this all started at the "attack on headpieces and garments" removal. That was when there was the big Kong rebellion, which was most of the bulk of AKA. (If you remember, it was an AOI VS AKA/Armorgames VS Kong situation going on.)

So, most of the Kong players left, leaving Aka more or less defenseless in a war they started, which drove us headlong into the ground, which is where i picked up the reigns.

After that, Aka had to be out of wars for a while. We couldn't fight anyone. What would you have me do? Fire at random clans like every other hothead before me?

Then Aoi got so big, that they could basically take any tile they wanted to, but they didnt.

This is a small game. There aren't *that* many players.

So chomping down on a weaker guy might be good for getting you clan more land, sure. But it loses their clan land, and the more land they lose and the weaker they get, the less they're going to play. Especially if these are player clans, and seasoned players.

It is not like we are sitting stagnant, we can't. You always have to have at least one active HQ, so there are always war room moves to be done. There just isn't always a fight, because frankly, we weren't prepared for another fight.

You talk about how leaders play the game for themselves, but i don't think you realize the amount of time and dedication it actually takes from a leader, especially during times of war and negotiation. I've had 2 hour conversations with people in game, not even playing, just discussing things logistically with other leaders and players and clan mates, figuring out what everyone wants, and how we can make the game work.

So, why don't you take a deep breath, and if you have an idea, bring it to us. Don't just make forum posts to automatically condemn us. Because i know when we do things and make decisions, our clan is always in the loop about things, and we speak to them about everything. At least i know i do.

The peace may be stagnant, but it is better than bad blooded war, that leaves players, real live players, feuding and arguing over nothing besides the war.

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01-06-2016, 03:31 AM
Post: #14
RE: A big thank you to the major clan leaders
I'm confused right now.

I think I don't know what to say anymore, yamamoto made his point, everyone made their point. so yama's problem is the clan leader is wrong for not doing a "war" right? and everyone just trying to clear him the real issues right?

I gotta admit something, I know it sucks not to having something to do in the game, I was having fun back when everyone is fighting in the war room, yamamoto isn't the only one who feels the boredom, I did, I think we all did (well, most of us), there's nothing more awesome than literally fighting for your clan.
tho I can still quest, farm, mine or do some random RP stuff, like collecting 33 different kind of herbs which I found oddly satisfying (I've manage to found 9 herbs, you should really try those sometimes).
The point is, there's a lot of things to do in the game, if war is the only thing you find fun and entertaining, then you should bring a suggestion in this forum instead of blaming the clan leaders, as thyla said, "we're all good guys", we can discuss your suggestion and it might came up as a solution.

Yama, I sure hope you'll found your "true happiness". As for now, I will join saskia with her popcorn and remain silent Smile

P.S. :
(01-05-2016 10:10 PM)Killrog Wrote:  EDIT: mfw I read Midori got the better end of the post-war deals (we gave one tile for every tile we got back, save Aka who gave 2 for free and Aoi who did more or less the same)
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I kinda feel the same lol Big Grin

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01-06-2016, 06:35 AM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2016 07:02 AM by DarkNewton.)
Post: #15
Sympathy for the Devil
You know.. I like to think that I'm the one of the most persistently friendly guy out there and I know most of the folks directly in this thread. That being said, I completely get yama's point here.

Sympathy for the Devil

Now one of the major things I do in this game is battle in the Warroom, there's very few people out there that I haven't fought along side with, or fought against. And believe me, there is always respect that builds up among those of us that are tossing each other out of a sector and then rushing back to toss them again, spoken or not when specific combatants enter a zone we tend to attract their opposites, the only people who you can truly consider a peer.

Now I may be a touch misguided here, as that is a state I'm very familiar with, but I think yama's point is really clouded and is better represented by a quote from Don Piatt:

The person who has no enemies has no followers.

Since the establishment of the peace, there has been less people ripping off their shirts and rushing howling into the fray. Partially because there has been no frays to run into.. I know there has been a more recent effort to have some sanitized friendly battles along the borderlands, and the Honoshihai Battle arena was a fun diversion for a time but it had very limited real affect or full engagement.

And I get it, I understand established players burn out of the warrooom, takes allot of attention and drive, and the real WR fights will eat you up and spit you out, only very specific sadists rush from trench to trench.

The hard truth?
This burn out leads to a realization from leadership that the tiles.. don't really matter. (No need to get pedantic about this)

You don't lose anything but pride from a square. The unspoken "who has the most tiles" leader-board is eyeballed by most. Would you like to see who has been winning that over the past few months?

[Image: Vew2fqh.png]

So Congratulations go to Aoi! with the strong runner up of Ki!

This is a measurement of the peace.

This shows the growth of a new major clan, the largest clans giving away what they have in spades to allow that to occur.

Notice the dip in Honoshihai? that is during the Warroom Arena to which AOI temporarily took a chunk of land.

Notice no wild exchanges, no battling for the top slot, AOI has owned the land, Ki has been content to sit as a near equal, and Aka has been on a long road to reestablish themselves.. something Thy alluded too him having to battle to do diplomatically due to lack of centralized force. During the war and preceding it, aka was at times well below hono when it came to territory, and midiori has always been well below that.

But I digress from my main point; lets have some sympathy, some taste, and take the offered breath and pause to consider for a moment.

Without pretense and personal slights/praises, Is there a problem?

These lines are relatively straight, no great losses, no great victories here, continued without end this is stagnation.

To me that seems a problem.

There is plenty of folks both in this tread and in the game who indicate that the feuding and losses of territories or fights is causing real world drama. I agree the drama should be avoided at all costs this is after all a game. But is the answer that for the sake of the drama we're not playing the game?

And that, is my take away from yama's post.. that we have collectively for the sake of drama done away with a portion of the game.

Now some people like to point back to the developers, or others are patiently waiting in the wings for the dev's to make some change that will revitalize the warroom or dueling or housing. As a beta tester who is elbow deep in housing I can assure you that they are definitely working dilligently to give us more and varied ways to play this game and attempting to find ways to impact the varied portions of the game.

But from the developers vantage, has anyone read the full twitter/facebook feed? It offers a very interesting insight into how much and how consistently they've been putting work into the game for /years/ at this point. There was a point where devs/admins were so vested in the warroom that they were posting/narrating the victories and defeats of each tile. They reworked the land, and 'gave it life' as some of the more poetic would phrase it, allow the prosperity/ruin to occur and change the features of the map, they would announce how long the player base was able to make the world last before a purge would happen.. Now? we prearrange terms of every battle. When we cross the ruin threshold very few people notice or are even surprised when castles reappear/disappear (we're on day 38 atm, last cycle ran 46 days).

In short we're not playing with the game as they've given it to us. I like to imagine that their original goal with the warroom was a multidimensional game of chess, where territory level stragey was backed by sector level stragey and we as players get to be the pieces, are given a chance to change how the flow of that game goes with the edge of a sword.

A beautiful image, and from my first day on the game it was one of the most poetic and living aspects of the game that I still enjoy.

But we're not playing multidimensional chess anymore, because it upsets people. So to the developer what does that say.. they created a game the players won't play because it makes people angry.

How is that motivating to them? are you surprised that they then come up with a new different unrelated aspect to the game?

If drama is our problem, the affect that is having to devs has to be "warroom is broken somehow.. not functionally broken but the players don't find it interesting anymore.. well lets build something different for them then"

We are not spurring improvements to the section of the game we all enjoy, we're forcing the focus away from it

You want to spur innovation? then lets burn this down, all out war, first to paint the map a color wins! Let's give them the pitched battles and excitement that will spur them to write our narrative into the story. Lets not wait around for a new season lets let our great battles and our great opposing sides be the legends they are compelled to write about.

If drama is the problem then how about a pact among leadership to be the police that squelches it, Maybe it is time to realign the treaty to not be of rules/lands/handcuffing terms but how to eliminate the sources of drama, how to establish lines of communication, be direct and avoid all the posturing so everyone can /play the game/. We have a high amount of younger players who are prone to quicker/rasher responses, and for some that's where they squeeze the joy from, booting an enemy back down the hill, and it's not inherently wrong, but letting that flow upwards to leadership is counterproductive and leads to the stagnation we are mired in currently.

So maybe the only thing I can offer to this discussion is this..

Use all your well-learned politesse

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01-06-2016, 08:31 AM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2016 07:00 AM by Killrog.)
Post: #16
RE: A big thank you to the major clan leaders
There's an issue in your analogy my friend, when you're playing chess, the pieces don't decide to go the opposite direction of where you want to move them, when you move your bishop in A6, it doesn't go in G2, whereas that's exactly what the players do. You say they lost interest in the war room? I say they never had an interest in it in the first place, the average barely speaking English player has three interests in this game, and the war room is not one of them.

1) get orange gear
2) get the biggest number of duels won
3) beat Yuuta or Chronos (make your choice) in the PVP room

And. That's. It.

The war room only sparks their interest when it comes to fulfill point number 3) and get it written so that all can see it in the defeats list of the current battle, that's all.

If the devs manage to craft a system where the players are somehow forced to follow the instructions of their leaders or where the leaders can prevent certain actions to be done by setting parameters during the battle, then I'll personnally consider waging a new conflict, until then, no matter how well we get along among leaders, and God knows it's already something difficult considering the animosity between certain personalities, the frustration and anger generated by the inability of the huge majority of players to actually play the war room as it's supposed to be played will, inevitably, generates more animosity and thus drama among us.

We're not perfect, and we're by far the persons who contribute the most to this game (I even did what I never ever do in a F2P browser game, I spent real cash on this one), so we have the right to enjoy the game like any other player who spends his day begging for items and insulting his leaders for not doing what he wishes, and in order to achieve this tranquility in regards of said player, personnally, peace in the war room is the only way.

Until real management mechanics happen, then we'll talk again. And that's worth for the influence over towns and villages as well.
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01-06-2016, 03:25 PM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2016 03:32 PM by Yuuta.)
Post: #17
RE: A big thank you to the major clan leaders
Well sorry, but I won't write as much as all of you, I will be quick and simply.

(01-05-2016 11:47 AM)Yamamoto Wrote:  I will be looking forward to when the Kanji shake things up and I can actually stab you instead of having to serve you biscuits at your tea parties.

I see that Yamamoto really wants a fight. Perfect! I don't know who you are in game, but you can come and challenge me any time, either in duels or in the pvp room. I will fight you as many times as you want! And of course, if you don't like pvps for some reason, you can make your own clan and attack ki sensu. Don't worry, I will tell other clans to not get in the way so we can make it a 1vs1. Either way, I'm sure I can give you as many fights as you want. Sincerely, I recommend the first option. I love killing people in pvp, and i'm ok with dueling. Soooo, I will be waiting for you ^^
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01-06-2016, 05:06 PM
Post: #18
RE: A big thank you to the major clan leaders
i miss the tea parties
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01-06-2016, 06:46 PM (This post was last modified: 01-06-2016 06:47 PM by Saskia.)
Post: #19
RE: A big thank you to the major clan leaders
(01-06-2016 05:06 PM)Azgodeth Wrote:  i miss the tea parties

Yeah same, still have that old picture when we were in battle for Munehashi (we were making a tea party around the flags)
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03-02-2016, 01:37 PM
Post: #20
RE: A big thank you to the major clan leaders
I agree and I know another leader who agrees too but to be honest everyone is too bitch made to start a war because they don't want to lose land or start shit between each other on a personal level but whos fault is that if people can't keep the game as a game without arguing with each other?I started this game at a time of peace and the way things are going it'll probably end during peace as well but at least we get tea and scones in the fun room I mean war room.
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